The Sustainability Podcast

Electric Vehicle Charging Interoperability - A Conversation with Saascharge CEO Richard Albrecht, hosted by Eddie Fidler

November 25, 2019 The Smart Cities Team at ARC Advisory Group Season 1 Episode 10
The Sustainability Podcast
Electric Vehicle Charging Interoperability - A Conversation with Saascharge CEO Richard Albrecht, hosted by Eddie Fidler
Show Notes Transcript

A discussion with Richard Albrecht - founder and CEO of Saascharge about how the future of EV adoption revolves around charging station interoperability and the convenience this brings to consumers. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would you like to be a guest on our growing podcast?

If you have an intriguing, thought provoking topic you'd like to discuss on our podcast, please contact our host Jim Frazer

View all the episodes here: https://thesustainabilitypodcast.buzzsprout.com

Eduard Fidler:

welcome everyone to another episode of the arc advisory group, smart cities podcast. I'm Eddie Fiddler. I'm a transport analyst here at arc. And so I'm thrilled to be joined today by Richard Albrecht, founder and CEO of SAS charge. Richard, welcome. Good morning. Yeah, we're pleased to have you. Um, so, so Richard, can we maybe start by having you tell us just a little bit about your professional background?

R. Albrecht:

Of course. I usually come from the telecommunications where I've worked for several years in Europe as a productive LARPer and product manager in transactional services. So voice services. In 2012, I moved in the energy sector. So, and what my first task was to develop a solutions for utilities to move into the electric vehicle charging world. So we have to imagine there was exactly the arrival of the Tesla S and the beginning of, um, what I would call the credibility of this industry. Um, pretty challenging. Uh, we were in, uh, into a niche product with steel are into a situation of a niche product. But the idea was to, um, great and national network of ed charging stations in Switzerland where I'm coming from with the challenge of utilities having, and then it's that territory. They have resources. They're also limited, especially in such a initial product. So the idea of basically it was to share resources, uh, among different, uh, utilities and smaller cooperative in order to build up a national network, uh, that has had some success. And I decided to do some, uh, consulting, uh, in the charging world, always on the side of, uh, all the sub four platforms or basically every backend or so-called backup, this managing ed charging stations, uh, that brought me to do some consulting in a major markets like the Netherlands or Germany. And, uh, 2018, I, uh, worked, uh, accompany the macro grief fields in North Carolina and that's Brown that decided me to develop a company here in the U S uh, I felt there were gaps in terms of services that, um, there are multiple market players which would be willing to enter the market, but they do not have the right tools and services. So at the lots ass charge and here I am today.

Eduard Fidler:

Great. Great. I see. So a pretty natural progression there. Um, can you maybe tell us a little bit more about SAS charge specifically?

R. Albrecht:

Yes. Church is a software platform enabling anyone to create on operated by like electric vehicle charging network that can be connected to any drivers. Uh, what it means. Uh, the situation today is that while you're traveling with an electric vehicle, there are many, uh, ed charging stations around, uh, anyone today is expecting some grants or we can have some subsidies coming from VW settlements to cover this gap. Uh, as a result, we see some, uh, fast charger popping up, but our approach is slightly difference. We want to enable more market players to develop services. They're around 650,000, the restaurant in the us. And our objective is to provide, uh, a software cloud based platform, a solution. It's basically a tool sets, uh, with a backend to create an operates, uh, needy charging network based on open protocol with the objectives so that you can buy any kinds of different infrastructure, um, as solution to interconnect. To your local network, to the rest of the U S and a wide type of set of application for Evie drivers. In other words, the possibility for you to develop your own offering or your consumers. Uh, our business model is based on licenses, uh, and uh, commission and transactions. We are B to B companies, so we are not as service provider, re provide purely solution which enable us to be extremely competitive from a pricing point of view. Uh, the target plans we have or all electrical installation companies, utilities and uh, the whole automotive sectors. So we are talking here about OEMs, those, so fleet management companies, rental companies, uh, which basically are looking for a solution to get access to the EDI charging network.

Intro:

Ah,

R. Albrecht:

which started in end of 2008 and now we have a fully functional solutions where we've just connected our first clients just recently.

Eduard Fidler:

Wow. Okay. Excellent. So just to, just to drill down a little deeper into it, if I run a Hilton hotel or a restaurant or something and I want to attract more clientele, I might set up an AB charging system. Um, but you're saying maybe using a solution like yours, I can connect with a broader charter network as well.

R. Albrecht:

That's absolutely correct. If you're a restaurant or hotel today, um, you have, uh, possibilities to buy charging stations and simply basically, uh, Monday the electrician Ford installation and connect this charging station on our platform and we need the access to any other, uh, service providers. Um, we follower, uh, you rooming herb basically does that sort of thing. Correct.

Eduard Fidler:

Okay. So, so drivers who are part of a network that's part of the hub that's a party to that roaming hub could also access and drive revenue to me through my, um, charging station at my hotel.

R. Albrecht:

Absolutely. The objective is really to drive more traffic to your site, uh, which is good for the restaurant. What it will tell they are going to have more clientele. They're going to be able to geo localize, uh, that there is a charging station at this sites or first off, it's a reason to stop. And then, um, as you know, charging and they put vehicle takes, uh, 10, 10 minutes to serve the hours depending on the type of chargers and the car of course. So you can be busy while your car is charging. And for the site in means, uh, more consumption on sites. That's why we really believe that um, uh, restaurant chains along the highway are going to need a future gas station that we know them today.

Eduard Fidler:

That's a really good point. Yeah, that's a, that's a pretty standard criticism of, you know, if people who are anti EVs that Oh, you, you're driving on the highway and now you have to wait for 30 minutes, 20 or 40 minutes or something like that. But that's only because you're used to looking at it from the perspective of a fossil. Um, maybe if you're taking a long highway trip, you actually kind of want to stop and sit and have a cup of coffee for 25 minutes. That's probably healthier. Maybe you can stretch out and not have so much road rage later, you know, so it's a very different perspective too. But the business model is changing.

R. Albrecht:

Well, I, I absolutely, that's absolutely correct what you've saying and, um, it's, it's very interesting because we're, it's a matter of perception we have today of these cars because the first, if we take the first, um, you suddenly, for example, we could barely drive a hundred, 150 miles today. The cars that we see coming in the market tests number three, or the announcement of the new, uh, max free, uh, the Ford Mustang, they're all talking, we all talking about two 50, 300 miles, which it's a very healthy way to travel every, 150, 200 miles, which translate into, uh, two hours or three hours of driving a break would be, um, would be absolutely normal or deceptive.

Eduard Fidler:

I don't know about you, Richard, but when I drive for two and a half or three hours, I want to stop for more than four minutes. You know what I mean? But you know, when you have the tractors to a certain industry there, they're going to find a way. And in general, you know, people are sometimes hesitant to change the way things are done for, for a long time. And that's also understandable. But, um, I think it's going to go this way, that's for sure. So I wanted to, to drill down on something else you said about the OEMs. So you're saying in this case, if Volvo

Intro:

okay

Eduard Fidler:

is rolling out their line of, of light duty EVs, um, they could work through a platform like yours to enable their drivers to have access to, but an entire network or multiple networks of Evie chargers?

R. Albrecht:

Correct. Uh, the model we've seen under Marquette's, let's start with Tesla for example, which had a proprietary network for they own cars. This model is not a rally stick. When we see that everyone can build up his own network. And I have to say a lot of respect for Tesla. There were so early on in the market, they couldn't wait for service providers to develop a network all over the world. So, but if tests, if Volvo or any other, uh, major car makers wants to start today, what they want as correctly said, is to get access to a maximum of charging points. Not only one network, but several networks. Um, how would go a little further than that? So on our platform, we enabled them to take a role that big called E mobility providers. So basically providing access to their drivers to the network. That's what we do with our platform. Uh, we give them the possibility to access other networks, normally access the network and also to negotiate a pricing attractive pricing with these networks. And we see OEM, they counting the major E mobility providers in the few Shishir, uh, details of the technology prologue in charge in charge is a capability to see as, as, as it stays below the car on a charging stations. And we will recognize a driver from the car directly thanks to ESV, he'll eat notification numbers. So instead of using a smartphone applications to start the challenging transaction or an RFID cards, we will simply plug the car in the charger.

Speaker 4:

Well,

R. Albrecht:

unplug the chargers and leave. And at the end, under the moms, you will get an invoice for charging transactions you've done in the same way that you're using your mobile phone when you're doing calls today. And this will complete the exchange. The Marquette's call makers have clients at the source, the Southern cars, they sell the access to a network. And this is already happening in Europe with a charge now offering from BMW. You're subscribed the charge now you get access to all the networks in Europe and uh, we'll see this coming as well in the U S uh, with hub check with electrifying Mary camp, the network, which has been, uh, basically created for this model.

Eduard Fidler:

[inaudible] okay, so you see the, the, those apps of this moment is sort of like a middleman that has a place right now, but as we move towards interoperability between charging systems, they're not going to be so relevant anymore.

R. Albrecht:

Absolutely. But that's at the benefit of February one, uh, today, um, chief of a McDonald's or burger King for example. Uh, I would be very interested to install charging stations at all my locations and afterwards called the GM of Ford. And proposing a better deal for these drivers to stop by and charge their car. And this will create a very positive dynamic on the market, will all suddenly you have possibilities to drive a client sell of UV drivers to your locations. So we see a high interest from um, seers Parkins retailer to install charging stations because they get access to a new clientele.

Eduard Fidler:

Right, right. No, this is a great vision for how Evy driving and charging and this is hopefully going to evolve. Um, so then I'm curious, Richard, and in your view, if that's where you see things going, um, what's stopping us from getting there right now? What are some of the barriers in the marketplace or technological or otherwise?

R. Albrecht:

Well, I mean, well first stuff we need where you just see a mass production of these cars to get into that vision. Um, it's very hard for the moments to justify, uh, to install faster archers in all fast foods in the U S uh, not now, but very soon. And what the aspect we have to see, it's the base product, the car. Thankfully we see all the major car makers all over the world investing heavily into this technology. Some more than others. Some are more skeptical than others. We can see that in the U S[inaudible], which are driving different strategies. Uh, we see that with the[inaudible] in Japan. Uh, we see that in Europe, five critical years prize winner or, uh, the German car makers, which are moving heavily in disconnected technology. And um, but to get to this level, uh, the cars needs to be cheaper and this is going to happen with cheaper batteries. The car is, needs to, uh, be able to drive largest distances. Uh, this is, uh, we're talking before 300 miles of our year. We need to have all the cars getting there and they're getting there. It's just a matter in two, three years, 9% of EBS in the markets will pass the bar of the 300 miles. Uh, the standard that test that has broccoli in the markets will be, uh, will be the new standards in my point of view. And this will ensure, uh, that success and the pricing will go down with more mass productions, cheaper batteries. Uh, of course, uh, they have some concern about, um, problem of sort of seeing in terms of energy volumes what me and the Mariah rector mystic. Uh, we've seen some, uh, statistics in some area where if it were change from 1%, 200% of the LEDs, we would require only 50 and two 20% more energy. And, uh, considering that, um, most of the people buying EDD is will probably also installed. Um, some are solar panels and, and hold batteries. Uh, we could go over that gap. The challenge would rather be in terms of, um, energy managements, um, we'd have to match all the peak demands of energy. That's a, thankfully there are plenty of solutions to eat or motivate the driver to charge when the, uh, when there is a sufficient campus, if they have a network or basically a smarter way to consume. So I'm radically positive on deaths. The biggest challenge to gets to this very competitive markets with more players investing. When you first start to cover to open the markets, um, too many, too many networks, uh, currently based on that property story type of way, which means that if you sign a contract with this company, it's going to very hard to move your charging stations to another company. Um, there is this standard or CPP, I'm getting a lot of directions in the U S which enables basically any clients and a future to buy a charging station and to move from one service providers to another. We need to have, um, more competetive business models, uh, for the moment. If you're a site host, the restaurant or hotel, uh, the service vascular pay for a charging station will be way too high. This cost needs to be, uh, lower down and, um, there are different ways to seats. We need more market players to enter. Uh, there is around 500 utilities in the U S which would have the shoulder and the, uh, a sufficient size to become the service provider. So not for reselling shining services of basically being a service provider where you can, uh, order a charging station, you can subscribe your charging stations and you can, uh, as a media driver use the access to access or charging stations in their area or another area. And for this, uh, you need, uh, interconnected networks. What is today possible with a debit card. Um, I can regrow money here in the U S in Europe, in China, but I cannot drive from New York to Boston. We are having multiple subscription to multiple networks and this is not possible. Thankfully we see very positive sign coming from California. What if forced networks to interconnect each other and this is um, this is a very positive news but it should be a known Manatee that networks are connected together and this is slowly happening in the U S but anyone should be able to propose UV charging station services. Anyone should be able to get access to all the charging station. This is at the benefits of all service providers and um, and this will be more competition on the market stuff. I say that's because it's the case, for example in Europe where there is around a hundred networks and um, it's possible from a Finland's to Portugal to drive with only one subscription service and to charge a plenty of smaller networks. And this is, um, this is for me a, um, a very positive developments and the, it shouldn't be, um, a matter of experts to be able to provide EDD charging services.

Eduard Fidler:

Yeah. That, that absolutely has to be aware. It goes, um, especially for the sake of public perception at the ease of there at the, the viability of driving an Evie, even though there's a, a very interesting cork here that most DV drivers, we know. Um, well first off, most drivers even here in the U S only drive a few thousand miles per day. And the vast majority of charging for Evie drivers happens at home. Um, it's really a top off. I'll be your battery. It's not a full 60 kilowatt hour charge every night. It's maybe five or 10 and not even, so the, the aspects here of you know, long distance highway driving is really maybe three, 4% of your total miles, something like that. And yet that is the main perception barrier to math electrification. That is such a funny quirk. Once you're able to access the assets of all these different networks seamlessly, like you said with a debit card or whatever it is, that's going to change. So, so in your view of that is the goal there, just to summarize, there is no technological barrier to full interoperability here in the U S it's pretty much happening in Europe already.

R. Albrecht:

Well, I'd say the solution do exists now. It's more than a perception is also from a regulatory standpoint. Um, I say before California, we're forcing that or us to be able to gather, but there's another way we don't need the forest bats. Um, I would strongly encourage every, uh, of government given grants or subsidies for charging stations. It will be very clear to the service provider that he has to open his network. And, uh, you can definitely influence. I don't see why a city should accept to have charging stations at the benefit of one service provider. And, um, so you can definitely influence this. There is, as you say, there is no technology Calabar a year. Um, there are open protocol existing or CPI, which starting to be adopted here in the U S as well, but there's more a willingness to go in this direction. And, um, what are we, we're were talking about, uh, the utilities and, um, being a market actor as well. Um, they've been slowed down by, uh, other service provider trying to slow them down. So there is really a battle. Um, two less enter more players on the Marchex, but the positive is that the charging Marquette's, well, let's say their transformation, immigration of gas aligned to electric vehicles, uh, start to be, uh, an obvious effect. That's why we've seen, um, lot of market layer all sudden monthly moving into the world. And, uh, there is no, there's not many barrier to entrance. Uh, I can today order a charging station to, um, ABB or, or, or Siemens or Bosch or, uh, different service providers ever sec. And, uh, call a service provider and have my charging station running. Um, this has not, we cannot compare the, the, um, the difficulty to reinsurance with, for example, uh, a mobile phone at the service provider not cycle installed and tenor and New York and deadlock and mobile phone and mobile phone. I'm a service provider, but I can today, tomorrow if I have a couple of million students best develop my own charging network, nobody can stop. And that's a very big shift where all these gas aligned companies, um, I'm going to have to move in a direction. Uh, we have so many retailers, uh, we have a coast school for example, which, uh, have a gas card or uh, their clients. There's no reason why they should have any card in the future. But in order to get display or engage in this Marquez, we'd have to let them become a market actors instead of just being a reseller of a service or partner of a national network.

Eduard Fidler:

Right. And an actor to expand that network as well.

R. Albrecht:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Eduard Fidler:

Street. Yeah.

R. Albrecht:

Sorry.

Eduard Fidler:

Yeah. There, there is a bit of a, there's almost a bit of a game theory aspect here too where you know, some of the different players don't want to, you know, be interoperable and, and play nice with each other because some of their potential business is gonna go into some of their competitors. But on the other hand, a driver that may have gone to your competitor, if your station is closer to them now that you're interoperable, they might go to you too. So it's, it's not really a loss to, to play nice together and to, to, you know, work with interoperability.

R. Albrecht:

But absolutely. It's an obvious fact. I mean, if, if today we wouldn't have around the table and I hope they can get on the table soon, all the major fast food chain, a CEO and they would ask them, uh, how do you see a future of cars stopping by at the restaurant? Would you like to partner with one network and be limited to this network or register to one network, which gives you access to all the ed drivers, uh, in the country? And it's an obvious question. I mean, because today if someone would stop and go to, to Starbucks, so whoever that can be, any, uh, any driver, not the driver of one subscription company, I won't be like, ah, if only T-Mobile clients could have access to internet at one specific location, that wouldn't make any sense at all. So it's, the markets will develop itself in the direction where the owner of these parking, where people will stop while traveling, we automatically are required to have access to a maximum of 80 drivers because the consequences go further than that. Um, if you mentioned example of Volvo, all these cars, I've infotainment system and Clyde and uh, the system will give them where the charge points are geographically. So automatically while they're driving there was say, Oh, has 60 miles left? Let's start, let's go out at the next rest station, let's charge your car and let's enjoy a meal of some sort. And if you have kids, the kids might want to start, do this location or dislocation and automatically, um, if you can only charge at this specific location, that would be a problem. And, um, this is, um, we, we don't see this as being realistic to have closed networks. We see networks being open for that simple reason in this. Is that the benefits from uh, everyone basically.

Eduard Fidler:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That seems to be where we need to go. Um, so I guess just to wrap things up, um, where do you see, what do you see in the cards for, for SAS charge? Where do you want to go as a company and how do you guys fit into this, this broadening and movement to interoperability in the charging space?

R. Albrecht:

We believe in this future of fall into connection. So SAS church positioning itself as an enabler if tomorrow or utility, regardless of the size of the utility or a city wants to install a couple of charging station, we provide an assist them to operate the network and we provide them at vacation to provide access to the drivers and to generate their own revenues. So we enabled them to be on the map to operate a service on the same way that, uh, if you are a company today, you're not going to outsource your, uh, financial departments. You're just going to buy an accounting system. You're going to buy licenses to Oracle, SAP or Sage to be able to do your campaign. And that's the same situation with SAS charter. We provide them application to enable them to build up the network with their chosen infrastructure. If you're a city, if you are a city parking, for example, you're not going to buy a fast chargers. You're going to buy, uh, AC chargers that you can add in system numbers, chargers, so you're completely free. We provide the system for them to operate them and it's basically, it's all sets, but it's also a market place. So once they use our application, um, we put them on the map. Uh, we enabled them to build up the business[inaudible] to get access to the charging revenues that we estimate around 500 to$10,000 for drivers. And, uh, we enabled them to be available for any other, uh, networks, uh, in the U S so technically the objective is that once you use our system to develop your own network, you can be accessed by any ed drivers, uh, in North America. That's the objective.

Eduard Fidler:

Well, that is a lofty and an awesome goal, Richard. Uh, we hope you get there. Um, uh, this has been a great conversation. Um, I, I think our, our listeners have, would have really enjoyed this. So Richard, we appreciate you joining us. I'm representing SAS charge this morning. Um, so, so yeah, we hope to have you back and we'll be, we'll be closely in touch. We're going to see how you guys do.

R. Albrecht:

Thanks. So, lots of words. I'm looking forward to the next steps.

Eduard Fidler:

Yeah, it was, it was my pleasure, Richard. Thanks again.

Intro:

[inaudible][inaudible][inaudible].